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braking ruts
I have been noticing quite a few braking ruts appearing on some of the single track around the place and was thinking why does there seem to be a rapid increase in them when these trails have been ridden for years with minimal impact. Well I think my query has been answered. In the last couple of weeks I have seen 3 different groups of riders that are only braking with there rear wheel, skidding down sections of trail that there is no need to skid on and making a mess of the trails. I think these groups based on the type of bikes and gear they are using are probably new to mtbing and don't know any better, I hope that's the case anyway. So if you see people out there tearing up the trails please try and have a polite word to them and educate them about preserving the trails by not skidding and keeping their bikes under control.
Cheers
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Try ride a DH track chief
Agreed! There is no need to lock up your brakes if your using them properly. Those ruts will turn to sludge come winter.
You can't blame novices for using the rear brake, everybody know how skittish the WA pea gravel is. If the track is built to IMBA standards there shouldn't be a problem. Maybe the section of track needs to be re-routed to get rid of the steep areas or perhaps armouring could be put in. With the increasing popularity of mountain bike riding the problem will only get worse rather than better.
It is a commenly known fact that it is necessary to educate people new to mountain biking about the affects skidding into corners has on the trails, to suggest re-routing trails and building new ones rather than simply offering beginners some good advice is simply ridiculous! As for the areas of pea gravel, these are probably least affected by skidding as tyres simply skid over the top of the gravel rather than cut into the trail, so please keep up the good work in educating the people in ways to preserve our great trails rather than silly ideas about building new ones!!!!
Yeah I totally agree with you guys. Maybe we could introduce some kid of mountain bike licence where you have to pass a riding test before can hit the trails. Have guys on ?L? & ?P? plates and make them have a curfew so they can?t go out night riding or going over a certain speed.
Anyway who wants to be riding on rough, rutted, steep, dusty gravely trails anyway that doesn?t sound like fun to me. We should instead make all mountain bike trails on flat ground and concrete all the corners to stop this kind of uncouth behaviour. Better yet how about all you soft cocks out there go grab your Spandex or Lycra (which ever is your preference) then trade in your mountain bike for a road bike and stick to doing laps around the Swan River. This will solve all the problems listed
1. You won?t have to worry about ruts.
2. You won?t able to see people skidding up the trails.
3. We won?t have to listen to you.
Here is a link to get you started
http://www.perthperth.com/cyclingperth/
good luck
why do people get so very dramatic on forums! all that Alltrax is askin is for people to take care of the trails, then they will last longer which means we ALL get to enjoy them longer. No need to get all uppidy like some little bitch.. carrying on about L plates & P plates....
Here is a link to help you out
http://www.angermanagement.com.au/
good luck
WoW what a hero trail guevara is! I wish I could be more like him.
Anyway Alltrax makes a few good points, guys who tear along up to corners
and slam on the rears do damage the trail but sometimes it can't be helped.
As long as most people know to avoid the rears from skidding as much as
possible then thats all that can be done. If your new to the sport then learning to
use the front brakes a bit more than the rears will come with time.
No one likes riding trails with deep braking ruts, on top of that it means that more man
hours will have to be spent repairing trail damage that could be avoided
Learning to corner properly is probable one of the first things you should learn to become as efficient as you can on your bike. It comes second only to Staying on your bike. There are a lot of techniques used by pro and sport riders to keep momentum without wrecking a section of track. Most the time when I'm cornering a lot of dirt leaves the trail in the opposite direction to the way I turn...and thats without the brakes. Chat with some serious riders and learn from them. Hey...heaven forbid it, you might even make a friend.The Wednesday night Summer series is a good place to learn from others. Go along and annoy some members.
Cheers
trail guevara is a champ couldn't have said it better myself!
Vote 1 for rock gardens on every corner. Just do it.
IMBA rule 3: Control your bike.
Skidding into, around and out of corners shows a lack of skill and robs the rider of speed.
Lycra is DuPonts tradename for Spandex. They are one and the same. Therefore it isn't possible to have a preference over these. Its worn by all disiplines of cycle sport and that includes way cool rad gnarly downhill dudes man.
You say in your post that the trails dont sound like fun to you. In that case why did you feel obliged to reply to this thread?
What trail are we talkin about anyway. I'll fix it. Give me some coordinates. Less talk more trails.
who cares what cycling discipline u r in at least they are not a hoon in a car or a guy on a trial bike ripping up the trails
yer i think i know what trails are being discussed.i've noticed the last 6-9 months many trails, even jarrahdale have become a bit rough n rocky.i reckon it's due to a huge influx of riders all using the same trails when there are no new trails being build,legally.it's definitley muppets and in some cases it's design.also the motos and those little bastard mini motos.i've come across more than one of those little pricks out there sitting in the berms or snakin up the trail.i gunna stir the pot a bit and say if you don't like your local loop then build your own,keep it secret and build it with good flow in mind, straight down a hill and it won't last.as for the latte brigade i reckon they like some bumpy stuff.ever heard em come down a trail whooping and cheering like they have just down something gnarly,only you find that they have just come off that super smooth fireroad that you just crossed?and finally if you don't like rough trails get off your arse and do some tlc.it's wa bush and it erodes quickly, nuff said....
To all the whingers....bugger your ruts, grow some NUTS and keep riding
it seems to me that some 'special' people think the trails out there are for 'special' people who know how to corner....'special' like. the more you ride the more 'special' at cornering you get.
maybe i shouldn't have put stop signs before the corners,my bad
Instead of having to pass a test to ride on a trail, maybe people should have to assist in building a trail before they ride it. Maybe then people would respect the hard work that goes in to building and maintaining these publicly accessible, free-to-ride facilities that we all take for granted.
Ruts = land degradation = trail collapse = more ruts = more collapse = trails closed by the authorities on who?s land we are all riding. So, as a lyrca wearing 'soft cock', I'd rather have smoother trails and resist locking my rear brake than no trails at all. Oh to be young, wear baggy shorts, a backwards hat, only ride my bike downhill (thank you gravity) and know it all.
Respect to all those who spend their spare time building trails and advocating on our behalf to the authorities to ensure that the sport to mtb (xc, dh, 4x, trials etc) continues to be a blip on the radar. What we have is a privilege, not a right.
haha this threads hilarious, thank your lucky stars you dont have to ride the perth dh trails, almost zero maintenance besides a few locals putting in the hard yards and 1 weekend of riding in a heavy traffic area like dwellingup and the trails are rutted again, let alone what they look like after all these wet races we have, toms crossing has never been the same since those wet races almost 2 years ago now
ruts are just a part of the track just ride the damn things, i highly doubt xc ruts are anywhere near the size of dh bottom bracket scraping ruts anyway, be thankful with what youve got
Yeah okay SORRY Steveo your probably right about the Spandex / Lycra thing, I guess I?m just not as into it as you obviously are.
I think some people have the wrong idea on this thread. Just because some people like blazing some gnarly rutted or technical trails it doesn?t mean they are some ?young, wear baggy shorts, a backwards hat, only ride my bike downhill? bad ass. They probably have more skill then the guys that are telling them to stop tearing up the track.
I build trails and know people that build trails. Yes it is hard work building trails and yes it does take a lot of time. But it is all worth it when you hop or your bike and go for a blaze and rip it up. That?s the whole point of making the trails TO RIDE THEM. So if your still worried about rough ground maybe you should make a complaint to Perth City Council so they will fill in all the joins in the pavement so the wheels on your road bike don?t get damaged while riding on the foot paths round river.
Here?s another link for ya
http://www.perth.wa.gov.au/web/Council/Service-Complaints/
I think you are missing the point of this thread Trail G. It is not that people can't or are not willing to ride rutty trails. They certainly offer alternative challenges to a ride.
I believe the real issue here is that ruts are basically erosion of the land, which the DEC and land owners do not look very kindly on. If they perceive mountain bikers as "ripping up the trails" and creating erosion then they will simply close all the trails down. And it creates a bad image of mountain bikers as little more than vandals. There has been a lot of hard work by PMBC and others to create a positive image of MTB to the wider community and get us more legal trails. It would be a damn shame to undo all of that by riding irresponsibly.
A bit of regular maintenance goes a long way.
A simple chat to beginers goes a long way too.
haha this is becoming quite funny.poor alltrax is just expressing his opinion that his local loop is being eroded and some of the corners have lost their flow.after all flow is what we all crave, be it in a dh track or xc trail.but bumps don't necassarily stop flow, bad trail design and over use does.pull out a shovel and smooth that section or make an alternate line?sounds pretty easy.building a trail is hard work but it is very rewarding when you can build what YOU want to ride .dec are slow to build new trails so while we are waiting go to your local and rebuild that berm or jump, fix that corner and maybe add a few new features or put up with it and learn a new skill, like nailing brake bumps etc, add that to your bag of tricks, after all mountain bikes have suspension, use it,enjoy it. it ain't road riding.oh yer trail guevara is spot on too, go forth and build
I avoid Locking it up as much as posible, Not only for the trails sake but for the poor mofos behind me that are inhailing the dust (Usualy me inhailing everyone elses dust because their so damn fast). Becides as someone mentioned, You can go around the corner faster and safer if you dont lock the back breaks.
And to slightly change a certain Quote!
"Not to have control over the breaks is like sailing in a rudderless ship, bound to break to pieces on coming in contact with the very first rock."
Self Controll and restraint is all you need. I myself can controll the way I use my breaks (As shown but my rapid burn of the fronts and little of the backs) When I feel the need to use them. (And when I feel is should use them is a full sec after I should have)
And to all the people being mean, Heres a link for you!!!
http://youtu.be/MJpyskHMwR
As for the Lycra/Spandex thing it was easy to Wikipedia it and find that bit of info. Just wanted to correct your mistake. Can I borrow your roadbike to see what the fuss is about?
Tomness, if DEC where going to start talking about closing down trails due to erosion like your allegations would like us to belive, then I think they would first have to address some of there own sh!t first. Example: Have you seen how may gravel pits, fire trails and access roads in both John Forrest and Dwellingup not to mention other places that are totally washed out and eroded. And half of them aren?t even used and more. If they were serious about this subject they should have a close look at there own stuff first. Then they would be leading by the example they would want use all to follow. Till that day comes they can SUCK EGGS!
So do you really think their going to start closing tracks just because people are skidding into corners?
Here's a little feel good video for your potential career with the DEC?.. good luck !
https://www.dec.wa.gov.au/about-us/working-at-dec/index.html
don't forget dude that dec closed down gungin ns with the help of a few lycra/spandex riders.over a few cut down trees.i wonder how many trees were cut down buiding the original gungin lines?i think most lycra latte ladies are roadies who think strapping nobbies onto hard tail bikes makes them a mtb rider.i think true mtb is tackling anything on the trail best you can or go round it if you have to.by the way i think baggys work as well if not better than lycra.they have nappies in them and a proper fitting pair of baggies don't cause rash, wish brings me to a forum topic that may perhaps cause a stir, what's better gay lycra or ultra cool looking baggies?
Hmm..bitter much? At least I can spell correctly. Their or they're...check out when each should be used ok!
*bangs head on desk* Can we stop going in circles(umm, not while riding..). Perhaps suggest placing a new sticky for the left hand side of the screen with things NOT to do to the trail, might be a good idea? Newbies who pick up a mtn bike & wander off into the pea gravel sunset might not have a clue!
Also, instead of us flaming eachother & getting our knickers further into a twist....why not speak to Jamie C & John C about it? They're the ones who have done ALL the networking with the DEC over god knows how many years, put in the time building trails.
IF you want your trail maintained, how about realizing that only a handful of folks actually volunteer to help. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you want stuff done, one must help out.
I might be a turtle rider & low in the food chain however these are just my thoughts.
C
You peanuts have to understand...there are beginners out there. All abilities deserve to use the trails.
This sort of bullshit has been happening in the 4x4 driving world for years.
You have to learn somehow.
I may be getting off the point a bit but while people are quoting IMBA rules I am sure there is one about avoiding riding trails in the rain,
This doesn't seem to count when there is a race on ( last years 6 hr as an example was the wettest day of the year) and the after effects on the trail are still evident. Some sections of Jarrahdale have never been the same as a result severe erosion.
I'm not being a hypocrite as i was there riding the same trails in rain in that race, but braking ruts really only effect a small part of a trail ( before corners) so its a non issue and as others have said, its only really beginners that do it because the more you ride, the faster you want to go, which means the more you want to flow which means better braking technique ( no skidding).
Brake ruts are getting more noticeable but like the corregations on any gravel road and need grading every once in a while to flatten them out. Take a shovel or enjoy the bumps as others have said thats why they invented suspension.
You could convert all beginer bikes to cantilever brakes untill they learnt how to ride.
Otherwise rock armouring is the way to go.
Re-routing a section is not encouraged by DEC.
Riding in the rain should not be a problem on a well designed trail.
Riding in the wet might be discouraged in some areas due to speading dieback.
Though I am a newbie to the sport and inexperienced campared to the rest of you I thought I would put in my ten cents worth on this topic.
As said earlier, the 4wd community has been trying to convert numbnuts who cut up on tracks for years to no avail there will always be numbnuts . I like a challenging track in my fourby and also on my bike . The DEC find it easier to close trails as that costs nothing, . Hey Guevera your name sake was for the good of the people not the individual , so while I applaude you for building and repairing tracks, to say to suck eggs to DEC will eventually harm the wider mtb community. From my small amount of experience I have discovered myself not to over apply the rear brakes but as a kid parents generally tell the kids not to hit the front brakes too hard as you will go over so education in the key..
Riding and walking trails are among the most sort after activities in the world. They are also the cheapest to build and maintain. Still can't figure out why the Authorities are so reluctant to spend. Maybe its because policing this kind of crap is almost imposible so they find a way out of it through reason. These days if you want to build a legal trail you will need to privide a lengthy maintenance plan to acompany the proposal. Problem is no one wants to do the work.
Teaching each other to such eggs wont get you result unfortunately.
Cheers
Great thread! It shows there are a lot of passionate people out there who care for the trails they ride.
Might be time for a bit of trail maintanence. Anybody keen? Like guerilla gardeners but without flowers.
Where are these rutted trails?
Is it really people needing technique training, or are they skidding for fun?
My kids are just learning to ride and at 3 years old it takes about 5 seconds to progress from first learning to use a brake, to doing skids everywhere and giggling their heads off. Some people take longer to grow out of it than others.