You are hereHow would you like trails to be built

How would you like trails to be built


MPN's picture

By MPN - Posted on 30 July 2013

Hand cut single track
45% (28 votes)
Mechanical track
6% (4 votes)
I am not bothered
48% (30 votes)
Total votes: 62
lgt's picture

I prefer the rake and shovel that way the trails can be made more technical, but use machines to carry dirt and equipment around.

viper's picture

But when mercury st and muffin tops were first opened the feeling of riding them has not been replicated. Although scorpion is bloody awesome aswell!

ashley g's picture

Hand built is good but we would be riding many laps of very busy trails if everything was hand built. You need a compromise of machine efficiency and human touch, where is this option mpn?

Magnum9's picture

And flow trails that actually do flow on a bike, not just in some expensive trail contractors mind.

wal's picture

Hand cut single track always, every time..
The skill is in the builder/designer to make them feel like expert flowing trails, using the natural landscape for best fit trails.
Always bedded in with numbers of tyres on the traik.

Oldernslower's picture

How about rescuing some of the hundreds of kilometers of existing trails already out there in the Hills that are getting overgrown? May not be 'flowing single track' but not everyone wants or needs that sort of trail.

But then again I am a little 'old school' so unlikely to happen Smiling

Farmboy's picture

As in all things it takes a passionate driver to get things moving, keep it moving and done. Without the driver, driving it, you are right it will not get done Smiling

philthy's picture

oldernslower its human nature for people to want what they want. if you want old trails rejuvenated step up and get it going, drive the cause. just like the scorpion trail builders pushed for what they wanted and built it how they wanted and Lindsay and luvin shovel crew did the same or stevie j and WAGE working on gravity endure. they all wanted it so they did it.

no one cares your oldschool, heck, there are wamba committee members with probably a lot less experience doing great things for the mtb community. all things take is a someone to drive an idea and see it through.

Jaredp's picture

As at 1/8/13, total 31 votes.

It would appear hand cut single track would be in a strong preference with "Not bothered" in the lead.

This would lend itself to what I hear from people I speak to on the forum and people on the trail.

Most enjoy the trails as almost forming two styles of trail network. A flowing groomed style and a rocky more technical style. Both offer a different ride experience and appeal to different riders.

This has also yielded a double edged response to the new scorpion trail. Every body loves it, but a number of people have commented to me: "Did they have to build it at the expense of the old trail?" and at that I have defended the work by stating two points. One the realignment was neccassary to keep the trail legal. And two, to make it sustainable for mass riding.

Now at this point a very interesting counter argument has formed.

Now please don't shoot the messenger!

"If they are so "sustainable" have a look at the state of the trails like "muffin top", "murcury street", the new downhill on gungin and the number of trail building days on the PerthMTB calendar for camakazi since it opened.

This brought home to me nature of the Two Styles of Track mentality I am observing. The comment had very little to do with Sustainability, rather the style of track that has been created in place of what was the Scorpion trail.

To illustrate the point for people who aren't following me. Think top of Gunjin. You have all the new trails on the North and northwest side. But on the southwest side is a track that has been there for near on 30 years. It's the rocky non flowing one that runs to the right of the old Little Ovens Circuit. Many people novice and expert alike hate it. But it has a fan base nonetheless and people enjoy it as an ascent as well as a descent. There is a number of people with a worrying thought of "How long till we lose that one" .

The people who do enjoy it and that style of track are starting to feel marginalised. The trail fairys that work that trail, and others in a southern direction, fear because they don't make their presence felt in an official way. than the course being taken on scorpion will befall that trail too.

It is a fair comment though, all the trails we have been riding for decades now have been built by individuals/small groups and the like. With the advent of WAMBA there seems to be a groundswell of feeling that trail building is not OK unless it's done by them. I for one don't agree with this sentiment but it does throw an interesting moral argument up.

To come full circle with this late night ramble..... What is being built now is great and appeals to the masses of new riders and older ones alike. But if we want people to stay out of the dieback area and non sanctioned trails we need to ask ourselves why are they still being ridden. The answer, for me, comes in two halves.

1) the trail network does not yet adequately provide access to the route riders are wanting.

2) the type of trail they are riding appeals to them.

I would be keen to hear from some level heads on this topic as I believe it's a discussion not yet had. I would be quite dissapointed to see this turn into a "tell those people to shut up and not be so unappreciative" flaming.

Getting riders out of the dieback area is an important task. But realizing that just like Northshore, Downhill and XC racing "trails" etc there is a large number of people who enjoy technical "trails". Trail building in recent times seems to have moved away from this style. but it must keep itself aware that it can't discount it as it is a legitimate form of trail style.

Maybe I should have gone into politics..... LOL.

VRC's picture

I reckon any trail built in whatever method is a bonus TBH...
As a mtb'er though my preference I must admit is the hand cut ones as these tend to do less damage to the surrounds / flora / fauna etc. & usually end up being more technical, which is my preference of riding style. Saying that from helping on the luvin shovels build a few times, it's pretty hard & time consuming building some of the TTFs by hand especially with the amount of rocks used in some of them, I'm sure anybody who has helped out out would agree... so where mechanical means can be used without damaging surrounds to much go for it.
I reckon the re-vamped Scorpion trail is a testament to that. The guys doing the trail builds have done a great job, shifting all those railway sleepers around, & creating those berms without damaging to much of the surroundings.
I like your point though Jaredp re: having a good mix of trails, i've been riding around the area for over 6yrs now & while there's been some excellent improvements in trails we're rididng, it's still nice to ride the older trails also, which tend to be a bit more technical & unforgiving (probably more due to wear & tear). I like the one you mention from the top of Gungin, it's rocky / gnarly / very unforgiving at times (we are mountain biking after all) but it's great at the same time, i'm def a fan of these sort of trails also (something to test your skills / patience) & it doesn't need to cost too much money in the process to build / maintain you would think.
Here's to hoping those trail fairies keep up the good work along with WAMBA... Smiling

Hugor's picture

These new groomed buffed wide trails are not for me either TBH. They seem too disconnected with the scrub and all about the stunts. Probably be much cheaper to build and just as effective having them in a field.
I'll have a 6 inch wide vague line through the scrub. It goes over whatever rocks and logs were naturally there not transplanted from some other location to relieve someone's boredom. With time tyres will create natural berms and lines.
I'd also like to see more long distance routes along similar lines to the Munda Biddi. These could link significant areas in the region like Vic reservoir, Mundaring Weir, Dwellingup, Lake Les etc etc.
These would make great training loops and perfect for bike packing or cyclocross.

Zoom's picture

+1 Hugor

Jaredp's picture

Be great to see a bit of balance there in the contruction.

MPN's picture

Hi All

Thanks for your feedback.

We are planning to develop some new race trails in the near future and this gives us input as to what trails would work best.

We would like to see a four leaf clover race trail, this allows for a central point for logistics, but more importantly a superb area for spectators.

Thanks for all your input and please, keep it coming.

MPN

Oldernslower's picture

Think the provision of some different types of trails would be nice and development or rescuing of long distance/linking trails would be good but not sure how many would use them. But the chances of that are next to none with the current focus and fashion in trails and stunt features. As MPN wrote "We are planning to develop some new race trails in the near future and this gives us input as to what trails would work best. We would like to see a four leaf clover race trail, this allows for a central point for logistics, but more importantly a superb area for spectators".

So has the style of trails already been decided - more race trails? Do we need more 'race' trails? Maybe the questions should have been what type of trails do we want, and where - then decide how to build or get them.

Just one opinion Smiling

FWIW

Marvin's picture

Rode Kamakazi this morning - just a great way to start a ride. I like the way there is some flow and then a feature, whether that be a jump or some rock garden or a berm, then some more flow.

That is my criticism of the new trails, they are just too busy with features, such that you are constantly wrangling the bike.

+1 for long linking single tracks in XC mode as well.

As you can tell, I only have 110mm of travel, and a clear preference for blue not black.

Is the new Scorpion 3.0 signed black diamond? If not, it should be. Nearly lost it badly on that big rock drop off this morning as a result of not having enough speed on and trying to roll it. Wrong. Made it but was that close to doing an endo.

philthy's picture

Sorry but there is no way that scorps is black. There is rollable bit to that small drop to the right of it. It's no higher then the jumps on camakazi which is blue

tomness's picture

I do love all the new tracks and applaud all the work everyone has put in. However like Hugor I do find a lot of the new tracks just too TTF laden for my style of riding. I much prefer a tight flowy track like horny devil to a downhill run chock a block with drops and jumps. The new scorpion is awesome though as it has great flow for those that want it and opportunity for jumps for those that want that.

More links between all the different hills areas would be great. For example are there plans for a proper link back to Kalamunda, rather than having to either ride parts of the bibulmum track or fire roads?

pmbc.crash's picture

I really like some of the older more technical trails that often require more rider input, rather than just allowing the bike roll over obstacles.
Build a trail well and you should be able to race on it, but I don't think that should be the guiding principle.

Downward Spirals's picture

I feel a little peeved by some of the comments that have started to pop up.
About 18 months back the majority of the Trail network was clearly focused on the XC flavour, with very few challenging TTF.
There was a call out to the MTB community as to what we all were looking for in a trail (much like this survey), and there was a strong slant towards more TTF and a way for all riders to find new challenges (PROGRESSION of skills!).
It took some time but with the introduction of Lancaster (classed as Single Black Diamond - but more like an advanced Blue), Mercury street (a technical flowing Blue trail), the 3 new trials off the top of Gungin (Loco, Judders, Laz), and we still have the final and most challenging trail (Loven Shovels) to demonstate just how twisted Lindsay's mind is (and how much the rest of us have to learn).
In order for ALL the local MTB community (NOT Road cyclist just wanting dirt on their tyres) to benefit, we need trails that allow us all to progress on bigger jumps, more technical features, more flow, harder climbs, what ever skills you are looking for etc.
Pick the trails that suit your riding style and abilities, if you want to improve your skills start challenging yourself on the harder ones, don't just complain because it is not what you want to ride.
I am not of fan of climbing trails, but I know others prefer them (I will never understand them), we need these trails and other XC orientated trails too.
What we are starting to see is the gaps being filled between the basic and advanced skills. Like many, I aspire to being a better rider, and these new more technical trails give use the stepping stones to be able to progress to the "big boy" trails.
A couple of week ago I heard someone out on the trails complaining that "some of the features on Lancaster where not able to be rolled" , for god sake... the tail is marked as a Black Diamond (some non rollable features!) and you should never ride a trail at speed without knowing the trail.
The builders, and those pushing for the development of new trails are doing an amazing job. What they have been able to achieve over the past 2 years has been exceptional when compared to what we were able to get legalised in previous years.
Keep up the great work.

Rant over.....

Farmboy's picture

built wide because they are built by machine. Give them a season and they are skinny single track just like a hand built one. It just did not take years to create. But takes awhile to go back to hand built width, that is just how it is. The greater the variatiey of trail the better the trail network IMO, enjoy and ride the trails you like, dont ride the ones you dont. There are heaps that do like the trails you dont thats life ....

pmbc.crash's picture

I 100% agree with you downward spirals.

Cranked's picture

I like flow and would love to be able to do all the TTFs but my current lack of technique (and a keen appreciation of the consequences) puts paid to that desire ATM.

My favourite 'flow' tracks, not in any particular order, are:

1. Paul Neves' Cool Runnings in Pemberton
2. The first 300m of Judderbars
3. Duggite Bite at the Goatfarm
4. Scorpion
5. South Shore, Dwellingup (will probably never have the ability for this one though)

Cool Runnings, Judderbars and Scorpion are fun, fun, fun for riders of any ability. Props for all the riders that have made them happen. Just need some longer runs and shuttles.

Oldernslower's picture

Rather than build new trails in the same location/area ie Kalamunda. Why not keep open/rescue/re-develop some of the pre-existing tracks that have been around before WAMBA and PMBC existed?

Posted a similar pic as that below awhile ago in another post - They come from Garmin trace of the trails ridden since 2011, trails that already exist. I don't claim to know all the trails and there are some on here who will know of others. In this pic there are a few that I would no longer ride as they may now be 'questionable' due to changes in regulations and different zoning. (some years ago the whole area around the two damns were accessible). Most trails are not single track but some may as well be. A number of ST are not on the pic as they are so overgrown and littered with downed trees as they may require some 'clensing'.

Will be going out to one of the 'old' ST this week (rain permitting) to massage it and make it rideable again. But as noted by Jaredp, this may be frowned on as it is not an approved trail - but was there before WAMBA existed (also before PMBC was created in 1988/9).

WAMBA, PMBC, the trail builders and trail fairies do a phenomenal job - but there are more trails in them there hills than most of us could ride in a year.

So here's a pic - Do the MTB community need more new trails? Are we too focussed on created 'features' (there are natural ones out there). Could the MTB community benefit from focussing a little more on medium distance (50 to 100km), or linking trails? Who will win the election? Will the Dockers reach the finals?

FWIW Eye-wink

Zoom's picture

CONSERVATION AND LAND MANAGEMENT REGULATIONS 2002 - REG 51A

51A . Bicycles

(1) A person must not, without lawful authority, ride a bicycle on CALM land other than on a road or bicycle path or in a designated area.

Penalty: a fine of $500.

(2) Subregulation (1) does not apply in respect of a road that is in a restricted area.

(3) A person must not, without lawful authority, on a road that is in a restricted area —

(a) ride a bicycle if that activity is prohibited in the area under regulation 5; or

(b) contravene a restriction imposed on riding a bicycle in the area under regulation 5.

Penalty: a fine of $1 000.

(4) In this regulation —

bicycle path means a path, or length of a path, at both ends of which are signs indicating that persons may ride bicycles on the path or the length between those signs.

[Regulation 51A inserted in Gazette 29 Sep 2006 p. 4313‑14; amended in Gazette 3 Dec 2010 p. 6052‑3.]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_reg...

Magnum9's picture

For that to be relevant we need to know what land is owned by CALM.

badchef's picture

what spirals said, to me anyway, is spot on.it makes me feel warm n fuzzy inside to read these comments and know that im not alone.others have said it too, ride the trails you like, and those you dont, ride less often.we are spoiled for choice now and should never complain about the quality and quantity of the trails we have.if you have to step up to do a new trail do it, or move aside, dont complain ffs.i dont give a rats if a trail is machine or hand cut, both have limitations and advantages, like nevie said a wider machine built trail will over time develop into a more "traditional" singletrack, due to follage regrowth etc...a machine might do it quicker, a hand more intricate but longer, who gives a shit praise to ALL trail builders....now....a new area, away from kalamunda/mundaring/ the weir for new trails sounds like the best idea ive heard in a long time.there is a massive infrastructure of disused fire roads, logging roads, access roads that we can tap into and develop into a great network anwhere in this state, onya old fella for bringin it up... shit now how do i get down from this damn soapbox.....

Get Mounted's picture

+1 to Downward Spirals.

I'm a little surprised to hear so many riders blaming the trail for 'lack of flow' rather than their skills. The new trails offer progression for all riders, it's amazing to have so many trails and features that allow you to hone the plethora of skills that go into mountain biking.

If you've ridden anywhere else in the country you'd realize how fortunate we are to be able to have well built legal trails with big features.

Marvin's picture

My main point was ensuring that the new trails are signed well.

There is a caution sign somewhere on Scorpion I recall. I was taking it easy learning the trail. I have since learned that on the particular rock drop off I was referring to above there is a rollable line to the right hand side. My point was that the main central part of rock drop off is possibly not rollable and is likely to catch people out.

I'll have to recalibrate what I think of blue trails - I had in mind Muffin Tops where everything is pretty benign, and certainly rollable. What a great track. Kudos to Cam BTW.

That said, I am happy for people to have their new challenging tracks. The comments above are correct in saying that one can choose one's track, and that the new ones balance up the mix by catering more to the longer travel crowd. Fair enough.

Plenty of flowy single track left.

Jaredp's picture

I had a read of what you wrote.

Whilst I see where you are coming from. I think you maybe misinterpreting what has been said above.

I don't really see that people are saying the trails that are being built, shouldn't have been.

Very correctly you do state that The trails that are being built are filling a gap that was not there before. The view points being expressed here are not of people not liking the trail and therefore criticizing their contstructuon. But as the OP asked.... How do you want them made? And then giving a clear choice between them.

Both styles need to be made. Full credit to the people who are making them. WA needs Luvin shovels, loco and scorpion 3.0. the're bloody awesome.

But what has been pointed out to me and I tried to highlight (maybe unsuccessfully I fear) is that by unfortunate circumstance of Die-Back spread and CALM legislation a large amount of the technical trails have been removed or deemed illegal. Then what has happened is that the majority of the new trails that have been built, have been built at the "expense of" not "in addition to" the existing network. So as a result the now illegal trails are still being ridden.

An example: rocky balboa= old pink tag, goldilocks is built and then a machine rips up the original descent down to 3 bears. Horny devil gets built and then a machine rips up the old line off mundi biddi. Lazarus= old orange tag. scorpion 3.0= old scorpion. All the trails I listed here could not be deemed as technical yet have been built at he expense of a technical trail.

So the fear becomes. If you don't maintain the trails to suit that rider. You drive that rider and his trail fairy mates back into areas WAMBA won't go. That doesn't help anyone! DEC will frown upon us all as a collective, make it harder for WAMBA to get new approvals and just generally muck everything around.

Hope this helps.

Lindsay_WAMBA's picture

First up, I would like to firmly state that my mind is not twisted although it does get periodically warped. Cheers Downward spirals! Got to have something to balance the mundane, thats where the buzz of a little air time does wonders.

There seems to be passion here, so if any are keen, the building will be continuing on Luvin Shovels this Sunday at the Dell, 8 - 1. You know, put your money where your mouth is, rather than armchair experts??????

More trails to get youth out there in the bush, allow them to learn about risk on a mountain bike instead of a V8. So yeah, trails to progress the skill set get my vote.

Cheers all,
Lindsay

Marvin's picture

'No way Scorps is black'... is that so?

This:

http://www.imba.com/resources/freeriding/trail-d...

says that blue shouldn't have unavoidable drop offs of more than 8" tall. The new 2' drop off at the end of the LHer berm clearly contravenes this.

The roll over to the rock trail feature - 'on the right' - suggested above - was not obvious to me. I'll go back and take a look.

In the meantime, as it wasn't obvious when I came up to it last Sunday, I nearly lost it as a result of lack of speed from taking the centre line at a cautious speed. I have since been told that a girl came unstuck at this very spot in the past couple of weeks and serious injury ensued.

I reckon there is no way Scorpion is now blue.

Magnum9's picture

Yeah, that berm is shocker, caught me out first time. At the speed you take the berm to be that high up it, you don't have a choice once you are at the end of it.

Jeronimo's picture

The recent growth of the Kalamunda trails is pretty staggering, it has become a trail centre with a choice of routes. Most of it is great, I'd just prefer to keep the old too rather than scrubbing it out. I don't even care if they wash out exposing roots and gullies, that just adds to the interest in riding them since over the course of a year they reshape themselves anyway. I'm therefore somewhat surprised by the amount of trail grooming going on to maintain the smoothness of what was built so recently.

With Gungin, I'd request a link trail for those of us not shuttling from roundabout where the bottom trails rejoin at the wall ride straight across to the entrance to Drago. Currently I think twice about each run down because of having to climb all the way back up 3 trails,especially as the last time is required to complete the KC leg back to Black Stump or Camel Farm. I don't enjoy the section after the wall ride as much which feels like it comes at the expense of riding back up the secondhand trail. Funnily enough before the Gungin trails opened I was riding that trail down and it was good fun in a fast open way like the Margaret River trails - it's a bit of a shame designating it uphill only.

bergrad's picture

"I don't enjoy the section after the wall ride as much which feels like it comes at the expense of riding back up the secondhand trail. Funnily enough before the Gungin trails opened I was riding that trail down and it was good fun in a fast open way like the Margaret River trails - it's a bit of a shame designating it uphill only."

Second that it is bit of a shame. That section is very reminiscent of European forest riding. As my Swiss wife put it, "Wow, that is like local riding in Switzerland, without the fear of falling off a cliff!".

Generally my experience from there is, ride up fire roads, the singletrack is for riding down Eye-wink

Overall, I'm absolutely amazed by Kalamunda network, both the old and new, it is world class for a non mountain location. I tell Swiss friends that I can ride 50km of near continous singletrack and their eyes boggle.

Cranked's picture

Marvin posted:

"This:

http://www.imba.com/resources/freeriding/trail-d...

says that blue shouldn't have unavoidable drop offs of more than 8" tall."

So there's three grades: White, Green then Blue, and the largest unavoidable TTF for Blue can't be higher than 8"!!!!!!!

Thanks for pointing that out Marvin, that restriction is so ludicrous that I cannot have any respect for an organisation that mandates that for Blue. Do those guys ride their road bikes when they hit single track?

Cranked's picture

Blindfolded (still too easy on a road bike)

Marvin's picture

.... are cool, on the North Shore. I liked that.

Oldernslower's picture

Cranked - I was amused when I saw the "maximum trail grade" for blue and diamonds = 'MAX 15% or greater". So 15% isn't the max then!

shakes head.

But goes on the say: "The suggestions offered in this and other IMBA trailbuilding articles do not constitute a standard, specification, or regulation".

So you can do what you like then? even have a drop off greater than 8"?

Cranked's picture

Marvin that really piqued my interest. I had visions of, say, a Canfield all mountain tricycle, triple clamps on the front, two Cane Creek double barrels on the back, hucking 30' to flat. Or maybe, for the purists, a Chromag double hardtail. Disappointingly, a google search didn't turn up anything at all!

Cranked's picture

Lets not get carried away with those dropoffs

danlovesbikes's picture

Why do you want more technical trails? I reckon we have more ks of technical trails already as a ratio than any other trail network.

Flow is good. Let's build some fast flowing trails that get more 'technical' the faster you ride them. I have 160mm travel and there are trails I avoid because I get bored of getting smashed by rocks.

GonzoRacing's picture

I believe that overall 1:8, 1:7 can be built in State Reserves and offer not just the option of degree technical vs not, feature vs not but unbraked capability vs not. And I think it can be done without compromising concerns of environmental obligations but continuous trail surface vs not (broken running surface or gaps). Thats what I would like to see and dont think this type of trail needs to be only allocated to regrowth or harvest allocated land tenure.

Oldernslower's picture

Does the MTB community need to build new trails? Would it be more productive applying scarce resources to maintaining and improving current Kalamunda region trails whilst also getting WAMBA approval for trails that have been in existence well before PMBC and WAMBA was created, so saving money on building new trails?

Those on the Google Image below are available trails in the region (different colours are different rides). 95% are open, non restricted trails that are starting to be used again as people access the Garmin Traces. There are inclines over 20%, drop off's of a few feet (which I avoid Sad) and some nice scenic trails with small waterfalls and stream crossings after decent rains. There is some single track but not of the calibre of the manufactured KC trails.

Most (nearly all) of these trails are green/blue level (except for some inclines). They are not constructed MTB trails, so aren't as twisty or have as much single track as the KC area trails. Many have been there since the 1900's logging, dam and pipeline building. Some of the less used ones are now overgrown, but some are still usable – just. Nor are they cleared (unless a fire break) and fallen trees are not an unusual 'feature'. They are multi use but I've only met one group of walkers, two horse riders and no motorcycles (except on the Kep, the KC and Heritage!!) in the last five years. Giving way to anything with legs, especially if it has no legs and slithers, is the 'rule'. (though overtaking 4 wheel drives downhill on the Powerline track is a requirement Eye-wink).

Would approving (they are open but not WAMBA approved) such trails take some of the pressure off the KC and provide alternative rides of greater distance? E.g. A loop that included the Goat Farm, Forsyth's Mill and the KC is just under a 100 km with 2000 mtrs vertical climbing (practice for the Dwelli 100?).

Note this does not include trails in the John Forrest NP or south of the Powerline track between Tank Hill and Forsyth's Mill, or east of a line drawn vertical from Tank Hill as these are proscribed (though they tend to turn a blind eye on the Eagle trail in the JFNP).

This pic was taken (with a crappy phone) on a recent post rain ride on a trail that I've used on and off over the past 25 or so years, and yes I've checked with the shire, it can be ridden.

Just askin.

PS: please don't tell me to get together with some like minded people to open up some trails. I did this around 1988, the club is still going, it's called the Perth Mountain Bike Club.

GonzoRacing's picture

Mate Ive always enjoyed your posts and this has raised some great issues. Its the longevity and legacy of trails and the almost euphoric and kult like state that new trails are afforded. Its like trails had never existed before Man in his 4wd and air con on ventured out to the isolating distance of 30 kilometers from the gazetted centre of the business district. There has a lot that has come and gone, a lot that has been driven or pushed through and a lot through recovered through no act of man. Theres a lot out there that has existed for some time,or 10 years ago 20 years ago and it has caused no damage to the ecosystem as walk or ride alone access. Motorbikes yes. 4WD bogan yes. But why is there this intense focus on off road riding and the need for it to be prescribed and official as needing every rock in a defined place, every gradient defined every feature analysed greater than The first moon landing. Iz building a trail for human activity fitness and the need to communicate and commit to the natural world neccessary of so many planning approvals as required to build a skyscraper, but is it really required or is it jumping hoops because beaurocracy does beaurocracy well. What is the end effect of steeper trails. Can we all point to trails without a defined maintenance regime and say with confidence they have caused no environmental effects or if they were left unridden in 2 years you could not find them. Have we created a regime that causes unnessessary and thus untoward alterations to the environment by regulation. I like your pic of the trails. They would be used and developed if as a community we trusted the individuals to self regulate and expand and provide real greenscapes rather than locked up community resources. More community trails quicker. The people want it. The Enterprise executive reponds to public pressure. Write to them now.and keep up the pressure. Just go higher and higher.

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